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Monday, August 31, 2009

STICKING OUT LIKE A SORE THUMB (Originally Posted 1/28/2009)

After being questioned about the accuracy of the previous cancer rate chart, a different chart that is more current has been found.

67 comments:

  1. For a bigger view,click on the picture itself.
    The Blog poll suggests some concern.
    Will the silence be deafening with this chart also?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Yet more information needed and questions to be asked before one can make an informed decision. To start, this is a county map. Does Laverne, Selman, etc.... get its water from the same source and through the same pipes.? I'm thinking not, however am truthfully unsure. I would think it prudent to find more information by city/town (zip code) before pulling pipe. Have you found this information available while doing research?

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  3. The statistics are county only. Not broken down to town, street, address. Confidentiality has some bearing on this for obvious reasons.

    However, the water sources are different for Laverne, Buffalo, rural water sources....etcetera.

    It seems it might be a common-sense approach to just have a comprehensive study done on our water, at the source as well random testing, more than what the town does.

    Not looking for zebras in the herd just covering all of the bases. I have asked a Town Board member if we could look into this and she said she would check on it.

    Does anyone remember who did the testing about 10 years ago? It would be interesting to use that as a baseline to see where we have changed and where it is normal. Food for thought.

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  4. A previous poster asked about asbestos pipes. Here is a link that might answer or confirm there concerns. You may have to copy/paste the link to your browser. Pay special attention to the humidifier issue.

    http://www.doulton.ca/asbestos.html

    A lot of information is also "online" and can be checked out using the Buffalo Test Results link.
    Search the whole history of the data base to find trends or other concerns. Rural water districts and other municipal water data bases are availible to compair to.

    ReplyDelete
  5. That is eye opening! I hope you don't mind that I copied the article, as it wasn't real easy to find. Here you go folks....

    Asbestos

    400,000 Miles of Drinking Water Pipes
    May Have Been Made With The Deadly Substance by Barbara Robson

    The prospect is chilling: by best estimates, about 20 million people have had significant exposure to cancer causing asbestos on the job. Three hundred thousand Americans are expected to die of asbestos related cancer in the next twenty to thirty years. Now, the deadly substance is contaminating drinking water around the continent.

    Asbestos is one of the most potent carcinogens known to man. Cancer now claims at least one life an hour among people who inhaled it on the job. As many as 200,000 wives and children of asbestos workers will also grow ill merely from washing asbestos laden clothes or being exposed at their homes.

    The American Congress passed legislation in 1984 to control asbestos hazards in the building materials of 31,000 schools attended by some 13 million children. And asbestos is present in millions of houses, apartments and buildings.

    Now, alarming levels of invisible, needle like fibers of asbestos have been discovered in tap water. Much of it comes from an estimated 400,000 miles of asbestos cement water pipe. Enough to circle the globe sixteen times. Buried beneath hundreds of North American cities.

    Yet scientists and government officials can not agree on how serious this hazard actually is, or even on what levels are acceptable. "We believe asbestos breathed is a definite carcinogen", says Dave Ryan, a press officer for the Environmental Protection Agency, "but as far as asbestos in water, the jury is still out".

    The people of Woodstock NY know the worry first hand. In late 1985, so much asbestos was in the tap water that it clogged the town's pipes. Health officials warned citizens not to drink the water, to limit showers and to keep asbestos contaminated water out of humidifiers.

    Tara Roberts, a thirty one year old business woman and mother, is the leader of the citizen's group Asbestos Free Woodstock. When she first heard Woodstock's health warning, she thought of her one year old daughter, who had had a cold. On her pediatricians advice she'd covered the crib and put a vaporizer beside it.

    "I realized that the vaporizer was probably putting asbestos into the air she breathed," Robers grimly recalls. "I was horrified." For over a year, she has hauled gallons of clean water home, taken dirty clothes to a laundromat that uses well water and showered at the houses of friends with safe water.

    Roberts states the 1980s message from the famous town of Woodstock: "Any community with asbestos cement pipe either has a problem or will soon have one."

    In the past decade, asbestos contamination in drinking water has been discovered in communities throughout North America. In 1982, Department of Health and Human Services survey of 538 US cities showed sixty five percent of them had some asbestos in their water. Almost nine percent had levels that health experts say should have signaled concern.

    In Connecticut, a state that banned installing new asbestos pipes seven years ago, 900 miles of asbestos laden pipe is still in the ground, supplying drinking water for over 600,000 people. The Detroit News informed 4 million water drinkers that 1100 miles of the pipe that lay beneath them showed more than 3 million fibers in a quart of tap water.

    Asbestos cement water pipes may be anywhere in North American, from Winnipeg Canada to Texas, and, depending on its condition may cause people to swallow from a few hundred to hundreds of millions of fibers every day.

    Dr. Philip Landrigan is the director of Environmental and Occupational Medicine at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York. "Houses built between 1950 and 1980, when asbestos cement pipe was in vogue have a good chance of using water from these pipes, but on one is certain as developers records are imperfect and good data is incomplete."

    Unfortunately all too little is being done. Water utilities typically deny any risk for fear of liability. Occasionally the utilities even deny they used asbestos cement pipe. Two decades ago, asbestos cement pipe producers, including former industry giant Johns-Manville, attempted to fix the problem. With Food and Drug Administration approval, they sprayed a vinyl liner inside asbestos pipe and subsequently sold miles of treated pipe throughout New England. A few years ago, tetrachloroethylene, a chemical known to produce cancer in test animals was found to be leaching from the vinyl lining into the water. By 1980 when Manville finally took its vinyl lined asbestos pipe off the market, 1000 miles were buried in New England and New York.

    Asbestos cement pipe producers paid for reports that advised water utilities to treat highly acidic water flowing through their pipes. Acidic water can cause the cement to disintegrate, which can result in the release of asbestos fibers.

    On almost all fronts denial of the asbestos hazard in tap water seems to run deep. In ostrich like fashion city officials seem to be pretending that because they can't see the asbestos fibers in the water, little need be done. Winnipeg, a prairie city of over 600,00 is a case in point.

    Sixteen years ago, Dr. Francis Konopasek, a physics professor at the University of Manitoba studying asbestos levels in wine and beer wondered if the deadly mineral might be making its way into Winnipeg's drinking water. Upon inquiring he was told, incorrectly, that asbestos pipe was only used to carry sewage, not water. In 1979, a Canadian government report showed that Winnipeg's drinking water was indeed tainted by asbestos. The city had almost 400 miles of asbestos cement pipe in the ground for nearly half a century. Over the next few years Winnipeg tested asbestos levels in its drinking water. In 1983, the year before sampling was stopped, a quart of Winnipeg drinking water contained 12 million fibers

    In the winter of 1986, facing public outcry, the city finally banned further installation of asbestos cement water pipe. But it also brought in Joseph Cotruvo, director of criteria and standards in the EPA's office who gave a different view of the risk. "A multi million dollar study found the weight of evidence is slight that ingested asbestos causes cancer". Not surprisingly, environmentalists were unconvinced.

    Unfortunately industry and government officials have been able to hide behind the fact that no adequate studies exist to measure the debilitating effects of drinking asbestos contaminated water. Dr. Irving Selikoff, the world's leading expert on asbestos related disease says that there are sound scientific reasons to suspect a cancer risk from asbestos in drinking water.

    In November of 1985 the EPA proposed a nationwide standard for asbestos in drinking water. It stated that consumer protection was needed only when more than 7 million fibers per quart were found, and only when those fibers were long, which means longer than ten microns. In other words the EPA was assuring everyone that hundreds of millions of fibers shorter than ten microns were dandy to swallow!

    To get to that dubious position the EPA shunted aside its own 1980 estimate of risk, as well as the advice of its own science advisory board and the opinion of the National Research Council. Instead it turned to a single animal study showing that asbestos Feb. in pellet form to rats was barely carcinogenic.

    The author of that study, Ernest McConnell of the National Toxicology Program has acknowledged his surprise. "We would never regulate fibers longer than ten microns, based on my asbestos findings".

    According to Mount Sinai's Dr. Landrigan, the EPA is misguided in its attempt to pretend that the short fibers are benign. Furthermore, the Natural Resources Defense Council, a group of scientists and lawyers with a strong track record in fighting for clean water supplies, charges that the EPA is allowing a risk 10,000 times greater than is prudent.

    Also in November 1985, the EPA officially conceded that humidifiers could add to the hazard posed by asbestos contaminated water.

    In drinking water the cancer risk seems to depend on the amount of asbestos swallowed. When you take a little asbestos and send it out to other parts of the body no one site is going to have very much, therefore the risk theoretically should be low. Asbestos has however, one very dangerous quality, as it accumulates in the body; the microscopic fibers lodged in tissues can remain like little time bombs and cause cancer years later. Since asbestos exposure is cumulative, young people are in particular need of protection. "Adults have three or four decades to develop cancer after exposure", says Dr. Landrigan. "The kids have six or seven. this means that a smaller dose of a carcinogen is as dangerous to the kids as a larger dose of it is to adults".

    Controlling asbestos so that standards are met is critical. In Woodstock, pipes crumbled so badly that the proposed standard was exceeded. In one 1985 sample, 300 million fibers of every length were found per quart.

    As thousands of other North Americans become suspicious of what level of asbestos may be in their drinking water, the big question is how to take preventive measures. At the very least, water districts should be required by law to tell consumers what type of pipe transports their precious commodity and before major problems erupt they should be required to test their water. If necessary districts should be required by law to quickly remove the pipe, just as schools have been required to remove asbestos pipe and insulation/tiles. Failure to do so dooms millions of people to become test animals in a massive biological experiment involving a known carcinogen.

    : Barbara Robson was a reporter at the Winnipeg Free Press in Canada when this investigative report was first written and published in U.S February 1987

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  6. I understand that Buffalo has miles of asbestos pipe from Doby Springs into town. I'm told that the asbestos is on the outside of the pipe. Can anyone confirm this. I feel that if I ask the Town of Buffalo I'll get a Winnipeg-like answer.

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  7. I again say more information is needed, and due to the serious consequence of both action and inaction, starting with an open mind would be helpful. If a water source or infrastructure is not common than one could deduce that the water, due to treatment or flow would not be the cause. It of course would not eliminate the possibility of the water from an aquifer being the cause, or one of a multitude of other possible environmental factors. Please read the cancer information as posted on the National Cancer Institutes (State Cancer Profiles/Interpret Rankings) website for further information regarding possible cancer clusters and the identification thereof. Now, regarding the information not being available by zip code, "due to confidentiality of course". The Oklahoma State Health Departments' site might not make this information available, however thru the CDC or other available resources, some of which an actual phone call might need to be made, this info will be available.
    m.e.

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  8. I agree that we don't have all of the facts.... so let's start just locally... do you have any idea the number of times our water has failed the mandatory bi-monthly test to the state? How about the towns around us? Let's see if we have any problems at the source before we push to more intensive checking.

    This path takes you to the CDC pages, they don't post by zip code either. (unless it is a verified source of concern)

    http://wonder.cdc.gov/wonder/help/cancer/USCS_2002_guidance_comparing.pdf

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  9. Anybody notice that Buffalo's water tested positive for radio active particles back in 2001 ?

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  10. What about the years before that and since? If not present then it would likely be determined as an outlier and not a concern. Reproducability is the key and if not there consistently then it would be deemed a non-issue. Regarding asbestos itself, what do other sources cite as the potential carcinogenic risk thru ingestion instead of inhalation? The scientific process, including those doing research and making determinations, would never cite only one study as conclusive.....
    What about the pesticides that probably make their way into the water? What about the oil play in the area and all of the chemicals used in the process or the byproducts of the process? The open mind thing really is helpful, and basically mandatory, when looking for a source during any investigation. Not doing this limits the investigation and likelihood of making a true determination. Are people presuming that the State Health Dept has not noticed the prevelance or merely ignoring it? Or rather does the prevelance and all of the information they have thru tumor registries not lend itself to true consideration of being a cancer cluster? The information and action regarding it is well out of the hands of the town board, rather in those of the epidemiologists and physicians at the state and federal levels. There are guidelines and requirements that have to be met before a cancer cluster can be determined and maybe this just doesn't fit. Like a round hole and square peg or if the shoe doesn't fit.....
    m.e.

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  11. I don't think that anyone here has said that the cancer rate was directly tied to the water, the asbestos water (by the way the water line is not a clay line wrapped in asbestos paper, it is concrete with asbestos within it - that is verifiable). No one is saying that Harper County is a cancer cluster..... just pointing out that it looks out of synch with the areas around us.

    This post is just stating to look at every avenue to determine where the source is, not defining a specific cause, but rather asking a question. "Is there a problem?" If there isn't one, is it harmful to ask? Shouldn't we want to know if we should be concerned?

    If we see several areas to look at, then look at them. Totally a no-brainer and no need for sanctimonious attitudes.

    When in doubt - ask. When confused - research.
    No one should have a problem with finding answers to questions that lots of people are asking.

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  12. My mistake, I haven't seen the posts referencing other possible sources, merely those referencing the water and the asbestos pipes. As far as asking the harm in asking a question... I don't think it is ever wrong or harmful to do so. However, it is illegal to yell fire in a theater. Just because questions are asked, does not mean the answer given will be adequate for all. Keep in mind that a higher rate of MS within mountainous regions is known, and has been known for years, however the source or cause remains a mystery. Sanctimonious, hardly. I am trying to point out alternatives though.
    m.e.

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  13. OK... I give... sanctimonious was a tacky word and used out of context. I apologize for that.

    Also, Someone please tell James that i won't yell FIRE in his theatre either....

    I am not sure if we will ever get an answer that makes everyone happy, but maybe reduce some concerns that appear to be out there. For years it has been said that "Buffalo Water is Yucky!" (not the actual word but much easier on the ear). If it is as simple as installing some type of special filtration system or increasing our treatment, wouldn't that be a nice fit.

    Has anyone found the name yet of the company that came here +/- 10 years ago and did a comprehensive testing of our water?

    y.o.u.

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  14. I'm a jealous “POST” sitting here all neglected while the Nature Trail post gets all of your attention. Why won’t anybody talk about me anymore? I have had comments about radio active particles, asbestos pipe, comprehensive water studies, cancer clusters, and filtration systems. I envy the attention the Nature Trail is getting. Please don’t forget about me I think I’m important too.

    Honestly,

    The Sore Thumb Post

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  15. Ok, here goes...my first post, bear with me as I am not real good with internet posts! When I first moved here in 98, I noticed ALOT of people had cancers of various sorts. The alarming ones were cancer of the brain, YOUNG people with cancer, it seemed to me that no one grew old and died of natural causes. Most had the big C of some sort or another. My first reaction was...it had to be the water....a common denominator for all of us. My reasoning for this is because this is an agricultural area with fertilizers and pesticides. Where do these chemicals go? In the ground. Common sense says..it will get in the water supply. Now back in the day, filtration systems may not have been able to "cleanse" the chemicals. Today they can. I can only hope the city will look into a new system, and maybe our kids and grandkids can live to a ripe old age without the cancers of today. Our only alternative for now is, bottled water, in home filtrations systems (reverse osmosis) or tap filters which work to a point, not all the ickies are filtered. Thanks to Greg for bringing to the people what I have thought all along.

    Kathy

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  16. Based upon a request to revisit the water issue here is an older post associated with that topic.
    Also a poll taken many months ago seems to also support similar concerns. Let's see how it flows this time.

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  17. I would start with finding out if there stats in common with counties surrounding Harper Co, as well as those stats in common with other counties with elevated numbers. Always keep in mind that different counties could report or not report differently. There's always a +/- in statistics even when dealing with actual numbers and not percentiles.

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  18. No idiot there, that's informative. I have to admit I had never heard of the bubbling gas or the teeth falling out of the cattle, however the cavern theory seems quite plausable and somewhat obvious given the location of a major collection of caves just to our east. That's what I'm talking about, people need to stop being fixated on the possiblity of the pipes being the issue. It's not that it isn't possible, however isn't it as likely to be something elemental, geographical or ecological in nature?

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  19. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  20. Interesting posts. Definitely something to think about.

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  21. Why was the post dated Sep 15, 10:32:00 AM removed? Which rule did it break? Better yet, where are the list of rules of which each blogger is to abide by? If there are not clear rules then this is merely censorship and the judgement of one. And, before you say anything about my right to refrain from posting on this site, I am well aware. On a previous post a long time ago I suggested rules, etc... and now I state it again. For the integrity of this site, there needs to be clear rules and likely more than one administrator making the judgement. I post on other sites of which this is the case and it works great! Productive communication can occur without all of the BS. So, again I ask what rule did the previous blog break as I'm sure we all want to be sure we do not do the same.

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  22. And.... actually there was more than one post removed, why was that not clearly pointed out like that of the second one? It is really starting to seem that if the discussion or argument does not meet the need of the administrator than the post is removed. By the post dated Sept 16 at 10:32 AM, clearly more than one or two people were interested in the stream. (I just realized I posted the wrong time - 10:32 AM as opposed to the correct time of 10:12 PM when inquiring as to why that specific post was removed. My apologies for any confusion created). So, is this site about open communication or is it to be censored with the expectation that those arguments or discussions dissenting from than that of the administrator will be removed?

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  23. Susan -

    Marlene approached me at noon yesterday asking about modifying something that she had written on this blog. She wanted to clarify and modify several points that she was uncomfortable with.

    As I do not have administrative access to this blog I approached Greg to see if it is possible to make multiple modifications for Marlene.

    After looking at everything it was found that the text would be totally altered. Greg felt uncomfortable with making several changes on any post, therefore the entire posts were removed so that she could rewrite them at her leisure with the corrections and/or modifications that she wanted.

    As it appears that you are the officail "watchdog" of the blog you will note that it has been a very long time since anything has been censored from this site. Most who post now are mindful of what they write and they show temperance and a modicum of respect.

    The posts removed were with an understanding with the poster. Nothing sinister here.

    Nothing underhanded, this was by her request

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  24. Grateful for the explanation and I am thinking it would be helpful, if, in the future, the same would occur at the time of removal - For all posts, not just one of two that are removed.

    Of note, I don't know who the Susan is that you addressed, however it is not me and I am the one that posted the questions.

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  25. Marlene here again. I totally apologize to the readers and Susan and Greg Harper for my request to edit the comments I hesitantly wrote. I named people without their knowledge or consent. That may not be illegal; but to me that's unethical. That family has been friends of my family since my mother was a child. What would the repercussions be if my CONJECTURE proved correct? Mass forced evacuations from our homes by the government? Would their be any governmental assistance with medical cost because it is our choice to stay here? With the political environment and world-wide changes in process, I felt it was in the best interest of this community to let sleeping dogs lie and continue my blatant and bold attempt at introducing scripture pertinent to the healing message I STUDIED in the 80's.

    Speaking of the healing message. The Bible states that if you reject the word of God from a disciple, you reject God Himself. Think back to the reaction of this town when Sure Foundation Fellowship moved here with an emphasis on scriptural healing. Bad-mouth, bad-mouth, game-playing against us, etc. What year did the cancer rate spike? Coincidence--or a lesson to this community? Your ideas are just as important as mine.

    Once again, a special apology to Susan and Greg Harper for putting them in such a delicate position. I appreciate Greg's hesitence to alter ANY blog. My only access to the computer is during library hours or I would have had this straightened out before now.

    Thank you for providing an outlet to speak our mind.

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  26. In Re: The Post Dated Feb 27, 10:23:00 AM

    This is Marlene to re-post some of the information I had asked be removed -- this time no one's names.

    Your statement that "Nobody is worried about cancer rates and water problems. Haven't you seen that already on this blog?" prompts me to post this as a possible direction to RESEARCH. Twenty-five years ago, I turned this into the local health professional who referred the idea to an expert. The answer was, "If that is the case, there is no antidote." If you are truly interested. contact me personally, because fear in an individual does affect the body chemistry, reducing the bodies defense system. OK?

    Now, one of my sisters who lived on Hwy. 34 remembers a groups of researchers from a big East Coast university looking into the problem. My suggestion is to locate that research paper and use that as a springboard into finding the carcinogen. You're very intelligent and I'm sure you are better positioned financially to pursue this.

    As for my statement that government could plausibly cause a forced evacuation of this area if my theory were proven correct, check out a little town the government bought out for their health concerns named Times Beach, Missouri I'm not paranoid or delusion, just re-viewed the story on the History Channel.

    I AM concerned, but have discovered through study of a reliable book what is called Rational Behavior Therapy in the field of psychology. First is a thought, then an emotion. The battlefield of the mind, a very powerful force in the physical health of an individual, is outlined in my posts labeled "Inner View." OK?

    Thanks for listening.

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  27. once again, nobody cares. people are so tied up with their own little worlds they care little of what is going on around them.
    cancer? no worries
    health issues from power lines? no worries
    bad town ordinances? no worries
    3 town board members with personal vendettas? no worries
    horrible deal on the fire house and sale? no worries
    psychosis marlene? no worries

    most of us around here are slaves of the state and we have no worries! the state will take care of us!

    Obama care? no worries
    pool problems & breaking federal laws? no worries
    a loon for a town manager? no worries
    living in Buffalo? WORRIES!

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  28. I would add to that two goons for cops, worries.
    2 town board members that have no cajhonies. worries!

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  29. Just one more worries....A Principal of our children making threats of bodily harm to a staff member...in a room with high schooler's, and one student who heard it word for word , more than just worries... School Brd Pres notified of matter but not others on Board ever told about it..worries....Just another Board that falls short of Standards....WORRIES!!!!

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  30. A regular little Peyton Place huh?

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  31. can anyone tell me where we are on the sewer pond fix?? I know that something has been happening, just not sure what.

    Also, what the heck was wrong with ms daley at the last meeting! bringing in personal issues is totally unprofessional and pithy. It was obvious she came in with a chip on her shoulder and just kept right on throuwing her weight around. doesn't anyone else see what she is doing to this town on more than one board? this is a major power monger who is railroading her personal agenda down our throats. don't we have enough of those already? back down lady. you embarrass yourself as well as make the others look ineffectual.

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  32. Yes indeed. We have the every vengeful, personal agenda minded, robin bird, who wouldn't recognize a good thing if it smacked her squarely on her big old hiny. We have the ever present, vengeful, personal agenda driven, Harperette, ram-rodding the EMS board, and ram-rodding the police department. And she has staffed both agencies with HER personal choices and little buddies. We have the every snooty, better than all of us, Buss with a stuck accelerator. And the two good old boys that haven't an ounce of cajhonies, who just agree with the previous three on everything. Welcome to Buffalo!

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  33. There's that word again. "cajhonies" I can't find it in my dictionary. Will you identify it for me?

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  34. Let me take a shot at it for you. I believe the word "cajhonies" (as spelled above), originated in an old surfing movie many years back. As I recall, one surfer said to another surfer whom was afraid of big waves in Hawaii, "you haven't the cajhonies to try the big waves, obviously, "cajhonies" referring to the young mans "testicles." I do believe the proper spelling should be, "cahonies" although, at this time, Webster does not yet recognize the word from the infamous surfing movie. That in mind, either spelling should be accepted as proper. It should also be recognized as a noun, as testicles would be a person, place, or a "thing" or in this case, two "things" that go with a "thang". lol Hope this helps!!!!

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  35. Talking about "cahonies"...the new trooper in town must also have some big ones..ya know, to address that serious problem we have here in Buffalo with tag lights. I'm sure everyone is sleeping better at night knowing that he is on the prowl catching those nasty criminals. Why do we even need City or County with him around?

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  36. Yes indeed. Those tag lights are often representative of case hardened criminals lurking inside the vehicle. I sure sleep better knowing the trooper is out and about in our area. At least he won't tuck his tail and run like the local yokels at Harperville PD.

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  37. Kick In The Cahonies
    Drink Type: Shooter - K
    Ingredients

    1 oz. Amaretto - (more)
    1 oz. Tequila Rose - (more)
    Instructions

    Layer in a shot glass.
    Credit

    Torch

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  38. Name:The Big Cahonie
    Location:Whatsittoya, Illinois, United States

    Who cares about me...what's important is you, the reader. This world has enough sissys, wussys, pussys and cowards. What we need are people with BiG CaHonies and aren't afraid to show it. Question authority, doubt the government and 'take nosh it' from anybody. The BiG CaHonie

    View my BigCahonies.com

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  39. so you're talking about the inside buffalo website and this blog when they USED TO question the things going on in buffalo? when they HAD cahonies and brought things to light and generally raised hell? i guess they lost their cahonies.
    anyone seen any crushed cahonies lying in the middle of hoy street?

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  40. Yep. Now they just peddle beer, liquor, and pizza. And everyone DIDN'T live happily ever after. Alas, but all is not lost. Soon the town name will be changed to Harperville. And low and behold, the CEO of Harperville is a co-owner of the Liquor sale joint. So, they self impose their own silence and allow the CEO to take over. Good strategy. And it is working. And the band played on.......

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  41. So I take it that nobody cares that the TOB's water has tested positive for radioactive particles. Nobody is concerned that our water is delivered every day through asbestos pipes. What a wasted opportunity for serious discussion. The town's true colors are shining "bright"ly. Looks like the real thing that is being "peddled" around here is nonsense!!!

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  42. Greg, I agree with you 100%. The night that Tommy and Marty;s son interviewed for the job at the town board meeting, I walked away thinking "what a wasted opportunity for a serious discussion." I also thought, "the towns true colors are shining brightly." I also walked away thinking the real thing being peddled here is nonsense." Marty's son or Tommy would have been a one million per cent better choice than the ardvark they hired. In talking with our police chief later, he told me there was no way your other half was going to let the board hire Marty's son or Tommy. Our chief said he wanted the ardvark hired because he is our police chief's little buddy. What a wasted opportunity. Shoe is not so comfortable on the other foot is it pal?

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  43. You never could spell aardvark right Jo.
    To correct you again, they don't peddle liquor. Low point beer and pizza yes.
    Take your personal no-good nonsensical unsubstantiated opinions elsewhere.

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  44. Unsubstantiated opinion? I would be careful with such statements. I personally spoke with the 3 of the applicants. None of the applicants references were contacted by either the town board or the city manager. So either the town board failed to check the backgrounds on any of the applicants, or the choice for hire was predetermined which is exactly what the poster above was suggesting. Not so unsubstantiated now is it? BTW, how is the new guy working out for you? City leaders tell me they have fielded tons of complaints. Not to worry though. He will be ok because he has the protection of your other half. The shoe fits.....wear it!!

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  45. Will Rogers once said, "water that has passed under the bridge, seldom reverses course." It is a moot point. Badgering or bashing Susan and the other town board members will not accomplish anything. So please, just let it drop. It is time to move on. Thanks.
    Tommy

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  46. Your argument has no merit. But go ahead and blame her for everything! If you could only remember Susan recused herself regarding the police chief selection. She even went so far to excuse herself from the executive session. And by the way what does any of this have to do with this particular blog post? Brilliant!

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  47. It's so much easier to bash someone else or place the blame on someone else.
    It's called ACCOUNTABILITY.
    Something that most people are lacking to the max.
    I'm not talking about Susan.
    I'm talking about the entire Town Board except for Susan and almost every employee, whether elected or hired who work for this town.

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  48. I didn't know so much riff could be established over a word that is not even in a dictionary and perhaps misspelled at that. But how do we know? It's not in the dictionary. But thanks for the information about what the word supposedly means.

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  49. I love Susan, she is so powerful-----you fools are stupid. She is the only one on the board that will speak up for whats right for the town, you should be ashamed of yourselves. What is wrong with you people ? I do not see her bashing anyone----yet you just keep on insulting her shame on you---go to church

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  50. I will agree with Greg that this has nothing to do with this blog post. However, Onside, as the moderator/facilitator should have the ability to move posts that are off topic. Of course that would mean Onside would need to create or move to a topic where the discussion would be appropriate. However, it might be that he doesn't want this discussion to occur at all. Please, Onside, if wanting everything to stay above board, please create the rules to this site as others do and moderate or have a board of moderators so discussions will stay on topic. If not, don't harp on the fact that the discussion you likely don't want to occur is taking place.

    m.e.

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  51. Susan you are a gift to this Town and the folks here should be more like you! instead they sit on their high horses and try and poke holes in all your accomplishments. Shame on those people!!! As for Greg and this Blog I think it is a great place for us to speak our minds even if some don't get what a topic is or understand how to use it. I still gives those a voice that they may not have anywhere else in our Town. Keep up the great work!!!
    M.R.S.

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  52. Robinette said, "thats it! I have had it! I am going to speak my mind."




    Just as I thought. All blank!

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  53. I read on here about problems with the police chief's assistant and some history.
    Can someone shed some light on this?
    I had a run in with the disrespectful jerk the other day and would like to find out about his past and why people were against hiring him after the town board had already hired him.
    What's this guys deal anyway?
    I'm fixing to file a bunch off complaints and would like to have my facts straight first.

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  54. Your complaints will probably fall on deaf ears. He is one of Ms Harperville's hand-picked little buddies and thus has the utmost of protection. She twinkles her little nose and Ms Robinette and Ms Georgia bow to her every beckon. And Mr Orangepeel and Mr Carpendry are just too afraid to buck them. But good luck though. Yea he is a tawdry bit on the snotty side isn't he?

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  55. You want to know about the little snot's history? Go here and type in his name. You are in for a surprise. http://www1.odcr.com/search.php

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  56. Yeah same goes for the School boards choices for Super and Princ. you can also check their names and find stuff on them too. So not everyone has a squeaky clean record. But it is ok for our children to have those kinds of people looking after them all day.... just another board who falls short of "holding a High standard" of whats right and what is wrong.
    I personally like the cop. Because Mr. Poopy Has moved. He still uses his home for a Kennel, but at least he has stopped piling his own crap up over there.
    AND ONE MORE THING FOR THE RECORD>>>I QUIT AT THE SCHOOL> Was not fired! Was not forced to resign. I was threatened to be killed and have my body hid by a staff member and a child over heard the conversation. No apology and the board Pres. took no action to my complaint as I was advised to give by counsel, She didn't even tell the other members, so I found a better Job.
    M.S.

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  57. And all this has what to do with the original topic?!

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  58. Really has nothing to do with the original topic but it sure makes for some interesting reading doesn't it?

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  59. To get back on topic - has anyone had the water tested recently for carcinogens? As we are one the highest ranked areas for cancer it seems that would be the right place to start.

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  60. I had the integrity to ask the city manager personally the scope of the water testing done on a routine basis. They test for known carcinogens, page after page. How recently the last test was performed, I do not know.

    Now, to clue you all in on my original post. Here goes with the gist of my theory on a possible agent that might be in the water.

    The largest known CONCENTRATION of easily accessible iodine in the world is right here on the eastern side of the county. Iodine is an element and POSSIBLY could have reacted to something in the subsoil to create a noxious gas that might be contained in the underground caverns underlying this area. There is one specific site that, in the early 1960's, a poisonous gas escaped causing a sinkhole. That was before some of our current testing methods and the gas at that time was never identified. OK?

    Now, I do not have the time, money or respect to get this tested. I repeat: There was an East Coast university that did research on this problem twenty years ago. USE THEIR RESEARCH AS A SPRINGBOARD FOR FURTHER RESEARCH. Why duplicate time, effort and lots of money already spent. Also, check out the area surrounding the huge iodine deposit in northern Chile to see if they have a similar problem.

    Marlene aka VI, short for Village Idiot

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  61. Great post Marlene.
    Once again I have to bring up the matter that someone else brought up not long ago when you posted similarly and he or she wrote:
    "once again, nobody cares. people are so tied up with their own little worlds "
    See? Nobody cares.
    Everyone is so caught up in their own daily lives that they decidedly choose to put their trust in government, even in local yocals like Buffalo's town manager hoping that the water they drink and shower in daily is ok for them because they don't have the time or won't take their time away from a daily dose of booze or sports or TV to worry about water, the single-most taken for granted dying resource the world has.
    1 in 6 people in the world don't have safe water to drink. Scary isn't it?
    Carcinogens? Most think it's a sinogen for their car. Maybe it plugs into the lighter socket and gives them directions to sin city where they can get their gin.
    Give it up VI. (Your pun is cute) but no one gives a hoot!
    If they did they'd be out there on the front lines doing something about it.
    Joe got him a new truck and that's all he cares about. If he cared more about our water we wouldn't get a notice every year, months AFTER a carcinogen or other contaminant level is too high, or WAS too high, because he or an employee of this town failed to properly purify our water. If the guy in charge cares little why would anyone else?
    This garrulous message shall cease.
    Find fault in my remonstrance and convince me otherwise.

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  62. Great post Marlene.
    Once again I have to bring up the matter that someone else brought up not long ago when you posted similarly and he or she wrote:
    "once again, nobody cares. people are so tied up with their own little worlds "
    See? Nobody cares.
    Everyone is so caught up in their own daily lives that they decidedly choose to put their trust in government, even in local yocals like Buffalo's town manager hoping that the water they drink and shower in daily is ok for them because they don't have the time or won't take their time away from a daily dose of booze or sports or TV to worry about water, the single-most taken for granted dying resource the world has.
    1 in 6 people in the world don't have safe water to drink. Scary isn't it?
    Carcinogens? Most think it's a sinogen for their car. Maybe it plugs into the lighter socket and gives them directions to sin city where they can get their gin.
    Give it up VI. (Your pun is cute) but no one gives a hoot!
    If they did they'd be out there on the front lines doing something about it.
    Joe got him a new truck and that's all he cares about. If he cared more about our water we wouldn't get a notice every year, months AFTER a carcinogen or other contaminant level is too high, or WAS too high, because he or an employee of this town failed to properly purify our water. If the guy in charge cares little why would anyone else?
    This garrulous message shall cease.
    Find fault in my remonstrance and convince me otherwise.

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  63. I have decided that with the action(s) and inactions(s) of the current town board, I am going to treat them just as I am going to treat the democrats at the next elections. I am voting for whomever runs against them. Time to change this mess and get someone that isn't so personal agenda oriented. My bumper sticker will read....ANYONE BUT ROBIN, GEORGEANNA,LUIS,DAVID, OR SUSAN.

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  64. Vi, here.

    To respond to the post of 4:00 Wednesday, I find no fault in your observations. Back in the '80's I tried to find SOMEBODY to take me seriously. Then U. S. congressman Glenn English did and needed to know the identity of that specific gas. At that time nobody knew. It would be a simple thing to test the gas using geological surveys to identify the makeup of the strata at the depth the iodine is located and narrow the field of testing. Once identified, it could be checked in the water. I sincerely hope my theory is incorrect. But what is the matter with eliminating it as a suspected culprit.

    Also, I hate anhydrous ammonia on the soil. You breath it, you die. Get it in your eye, you go blind. You cannot tell me that does not go into the crop. The thought of little children eating wheat products because "it's good for you" just sickens me. No wonder the U. S. cancer rate is higher than many third world countries. From what I understand, the soil has to be properly treated in order to qualify as non-fertilized in the growing health food distributors. Thirty years ago, Dad sold his wheat for $30/bu in that arena. Less expense, more profit. What part do they not understand. Not to mention possible contamination of the water.

    Thanks for being decent to me.

    Marlene aka Vi

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  65. Vi, again.

    It is unreasonable to think that wheat production is going to cease adding to the worldwide famine (CNN documentary), but certainly sections of tillable soil could be planted to the specific grass that Frank Lucas told us about at a Town Hall meeting several years ago. Instead of using corn as the basis for renewable energy, leaving a shortage for food, he suggested this non-edible grass as an alternative. Not only could the root systems and "stubble" be turned under as a green manure to return SOME nutrients to the soil, but would help somewhat in the global struggle for energy. Of course the Eastern U.S.power bloc is deterring this viable solution. Unfortunately most city people do not understand where there banquets come from and won't finance such restructuring.

    The entire Agriculture program needs to be edited along the lines of a former Harper county resident back in the dirty '30's. The Rodale people should be consulted. Decades ago, they were invited to help set up good farming procedures in an emerging African nation with good results.

    Oh well, will they listen before it's too late. Nah. But thanks for listening.

    Marlene

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  66. Vi, here.

    Just posted something on this article that might be of interest to the agriculture crowd, but it didn't show up on the "Recent Posts" section.

    Marlene

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