My there were a lot of people at the board meeting. And everyone who stayed got to witness but maybe not hear a public tongue lashing let loose by several audience members concerning blog posts and online magazines. Do they hope for the town board to pass a city ordinance to ban these computer websites? It is hard to figure out how the appearances from the audience portion of the meeting are to be used for public outrage for what is written online. Nevertheless, people where able to speak their mind and that is a good thing. If what is written on these pages upsets people to the point of trembling and shaking because they are so upset then please refrain from reading here. I again apologize for upsetting those of you. The town board meeting is still not the venue to be used for such activity but there is no surprise to say the least. Appreciation goes out to the very few people that took the time to raise their concerns in a civil manner after the meeting.
Addressing the issue raised tonight from a concerned individual demanding a retraction for previous posts there will be none at this time until the necessary studies are made. I did my homework and we are not out of the woods yet. If you felt misled by the posts I didn't mean to do that. I still firmly believe that there is a capacity issue and until the board takes the steps to fully address that situation it will always be up in the air. The core of the expense will be for earthwork related items which have not been fully addressed. The "total" costs for upgrades for the facility have yet to be determined. The sum of these is what I have predicted to be expensive. The fines did not reach six figures in itself and that may be what the retraction demand was for. As stated in the original post I would prefer to eat crow but now it is too early to set the table for that meal.
Furthermore, we all live in the same 73834 zip code. I don’t see it being divided. Obviously there is frustration with a lot of things going on and that only shows that people care. Ganging up on people seems to be a routine approach here lately. I am an individual writing what I believe and I don’t expect everyone to agree. This is the venue I choose to use. This week alone 208 different individuals have looked in on this blog. I believe it is useful.
The cat is out of the bag, and since this the first time anyone has eluded to the blog author it is now fully disclosed in the blog profile. I find it amazing that it took this long for a request of it to be revealed. My apologizies to Inside Buffalo for bearing the brunt from all of my posts.
I will share my thoughts on the extra police officer and others thoughts at a later time.
Friday, January 23, 2009
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Quoting from on the online "insidebuffalo," they said, "The question arises; why would the Town Board allow this type of public input when it has nothing to do with the Town Board or the Town itself?" There is also much written about censorship and the freedom of speech. In my opinion, freedom of speach is a two way street. It apears to me, the publisher(s) of insidebuffalo embrace freedom of speech so long as it is directed at others. However, when that freedom of speech is aimed back at them, they go into a long and lengthy tirade about how improper it was for audience members to express their right to freedom of speech, citing the fact it was an improper forum to exercise that right. I dissagree. "Comments from the audience are allowed. I guess what I am saying is, if you repeatedly punch someone in the nose, and they suddenly strike back, perhaps you got just what you deserved. Crying foul will most surely fall upon deaf ears. Grow up Mr T, Your drum banging is futile.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely comments are allowed - but as the article said- it's not the proper forum.
ReplyDeletetake your griefs directly to the source. I have and I've found it the exchasnge to be fascinating.
I wasn't there but from what i've heard and read - the group was wrong. The town board has no control over this web sight or the other one. Neither does thr group. If the group wanted to make comments about it - they can get their ow forum and not ours - the town's, yes, it's our town ans the forum for it is our forum, the peoples. It was the wrong place.
Man, all of this is just exhausting..
ReplyDeleteHospital group ticked at Mr T. Mr T indignant over "Don't be Mis-lead". Mr H airing his opinions in the blogs.Yuck. But air your griefs where they should be aired. No more High School mentality or pack mentality. Man oh man
Town Board meetings are business meetings to conduct to "business" of the town. not the rumors, not the ticked or indignant.Did the hospital group come to address any of the items on the agenda??? Mt T wasn't even there. So who was making their own agenda up for the night?
Before you get hacked at the anonymous folk of your town, remember that by mass meetings and mud-slinging you are scaring us (normal fols - and I mean that since I fell all of you guys do not fit the category any longer) into anonymity by your knee-jerk reactions. That goes for ALL of YOU, Hosp, Mr.T and Mr.H.
Enough already. It appearsthat EVERYONE has forgotten to conduct themselves with another "D" word. DIGNITY.
Never saw such a group of opportunistic, indignant, self-righteous people/groups come together to cause this much trouble. Again, ENOUGH. Go to the people you have the gripe with. Let the Town Board do their work at the meetings. Let the BLoggers do whatever they do on the blogs or newsletters.Let the hospital people talk to their friends and families (or answer the blog comments) Silence is always considered acceptance, ya know that?
But, if nothing else, if you can't stand what you read.... don't read it. Much like if you don't like what's on TV you change the channel, Town Board members knew they were open for criticism and scrutiny. Their every action AND inaction speaks volumes. Let them defend themselves. I elected them to take care of business, good or bad, not deal with ranting, rumors, or redundancy.
This is my first and last time on this blog, do with it what you will! I won't be looking for a response.
\Anonymous and Proud. This way I wou'nt have anyone with white bed sheets over their heads at my door to force my obedience. So there.
Man, this is exhausting
Greg Harper and Dave and Alexis Thompson have missed the point. The folks who were at the town board meeting were there because they wanted to express their support for the Board of Trustees and Buffalo town officials. We are upset by the vicious personal attacks on individual members of the town board and town government which Dave and Alexis Thompson (or their ghost writer) and Greg Harper have posted in a public forum - on the Internet. We want the personal attacks, the snide and insulting comments, and the derision and the disrespect to stop immediately. Public personal attacks on the Town government dictate a public response to those attacks. What better forum than the public comment section of the town board meeting?
ReplyDeleteI fully support Harper's and Thompsons' right to watchdog town government if they want and to discuss ISSUES such as the sewer ponds anywhere and anytime. They have the same rights to free speech as any other American. They also have the responsibility to use this right wisely.
Some of the anonymous posters seem to have missed the point as well, possible due to 1) not being present at the town board meeting and/or 2) getting their information ONLY from Greg Harper or Alexis and Dave Thompson.
Robin Daley
Disclaimer: This is only MY opinion of which I have an inalienable right to have and don't expect everyone to necessarily agree. I am not asking you to agree, just to consider.
ReplyDeleteHere's another viewpoint. I have read, on both the Inside Buffalo site and this blog what has been reported and also of the opinions of both Mr. Harper and Mr. Thompson, and I do not think that their sole purpose is to attack the Town Board or the local government out of hand. I feel that they are trying to bring insight to certain issues so that the Trustees won't have to waste time making necessary changes later by revisiting the same issues over and over again. I know that both have offered opinions and suggestions on several issues trying to get the Trustees to not make hasty decisions, only to have those comments ignored because some of the Trustees only view them as troublemakers. Even though one may not personally LIKE either one of them, doesn't mean they should dismiss all comments made by them. I'm not saying that you have to become their best friend, only that I have seen where many issues could have found more equitable solutions and had to be revisited less had they only heeded some of the suggestions. The pay raise for the town employees comes to mind. Even former mayor Carpenter tried to get them to do some more thinking on this particular issue before just passing it, but was also ignored. I know I don't like to be told that I am doing my job wrong, especially by someone I don't even like. However, wrong is wrong!!
If I made mistakes on my job and it ended up costing my employer large sums of money or endangered some of my fellow workers, I would either be reprimanded, demoted, or fired, not patted on the back and told that I was doing a good job!! Don't get me wrong, I very much want to be able to have a positive attitude toward our town management, but mistakes have been made. I know that we all make them, but the thing that is missing in this case is that no one is admitting to having made mistakes. Admission of wrong-doing is the first thing that must happen before things can go forward as they should. I may not always agree with the opinions the authors of these two sites have, but I do honestly respect that they have given food for thought and have raised awareness. I for one have lived here all my life and have found that I am as guilty of not seeing anything 'outside the box' as anyone. It's easy in this slow paced town to become complacent and let things just flow along. Then when someone from a much larger place comes to town and commences to point out flaws, at first I think 'who does this guy think he is anyway coming here and telling us we are doing things illegally or in an inadequate way'(which I know many of you have thought), then when I start to actually LISTEN, and begin to realize that perhaps he had a point. And yes, when you realize that things are going down the wrong path, CHANGE has to be made, you face the ever present mentality that CHANGE is NOT what a large share of our population wants. It would disrupt our easy complacent way of life. Well, that's true, but if we don't CHANGE we will cease to be. So in this regard, I am grateful for the insight these two persons have offered. Now, seriously, how many of you would even be aware of the issues had you not heard it from someone else? Did you attend the meetings or just wait and hear things via the local rumor mill? And would you have known where to look on the internet had someone not told you? I'll bet more people are aware of the issues now than ever before! It's all about accountability, all of us have to be accountable for our actions and deeds. That is all I believe is being done with these sites. That it steps on toes is to be expected. Instead of getting mad and boycotting businesses and forming hate groups, help by providing productive suggestions. I don't think telling folks to get out of town is productive!! If this is to be the way of it, we will NEVER attract businesses to our little town. They will run screaming into the hills. Who would want to come and live in a town where you were expected to do only as you were told and never voice an opinion or say anything about one of our hometown people... OR ELSE!!
As to supporting the Trustees, did not one of our esteemed Trustees also get viciously verbally attacked by one of the crowd who suggested that she may be leaking confidential information to this sites author?
Robin explains,
ReplyDelete"We are upset by the vicious personal attacks on individual members of the town board and town government which Dave and Alexis Thompson (or their ghost writer) and Greg Harper have posted in a public forum"
My response,
Nothing that I have written represents vicious personal attacks. Just because the topics are sensitive in nature and have been brought to light does not formulate viciousness. Being in the public arena or limelight will always depict the risk of criticism, it just comes with the territory. There still is no cause for me to immediately refrain from what I write, what I present, what is my take, my opinion, or my concerns on what transpires. Just as you are sensitive about your professional colleagues, I too am sensitive about how my city government operates. I have no doubt the same goals will ultimately be reached, I choose to express my thoughts and concerns on the process of getting there.
I will be the first to admit that my approach is straightforward and abrupt, that may not sit well with most. And no one will be surprised about that. The venting has occurred and I have already stated my opinion on that. I think it is time to focus our energy on solutions to problems that are in front of all of us. If making me the scapegoat for these problems is part of this progression, so be it. I greatly appreciate your choice to air your concerns with me in this forum. I most certainly look forward to hearing your input and suggestions on the town’s situations at the future board meetings.
Greg Harper
I recently received a letter that helped me understand why certain citizens of Buffalo might be afraid to post comments to this blog under their own names.
ReplyDelete"January 24, 2009
Dear Ms. Robin Daley
The post you admittedly made at http://onsidebuffalo.blogspot.com/ enclosed and attached, was not only factually inaccurate, it was a blatant attempt to slander and defame me publicly. Never, at any time did I or have I written or provided any content to the website: InsideBuffalo.net. nor have I ever made any post at the websites referenced.
I never made any point, as cited in your post, nor did I publicly comment at the Town Board Meeting on Wednesday January 21, 2009. I have never made a personal attack and neither havbe I ever posted in any public forum as you quote me as having done. My name was being used by some in attendance at the Buffalo Town Board meeting egregiously. Their and your anger has been directed at me improperly and without provocation. You used my name three times in one single post. I have never made any attack whether vicious or otherwise in print or verbally.
It is unclear as to why you are on a crusade to publicly slander me, placing yourself at risk for any monetary damages that may result from this defamation and libel. I am unhappy and troubled by your unwarranted public actions and request that you write a publicly posted apology on the above-referenced website and immediately cease your slanderous activities.
In the future please check with me for the precise facts before making any more unsubstantiated statements.
If you persist in this deceptive behavior I will be forced to pursue this matter through the legal system.
I have retained counsel regarding this and other slander matters. You may contact me for my counsel information in writing at any time.
Sincerely,
Alexis Thompson"
There you have it.
Robin Daley
Anyone have any idea how much a moving van from here....to say, Florida might cost? One way of course! I WOULD CHIP IN!!!
ReplyDeleteWow, an additional innovative inspired fearless statement from a mysterious poster!
ReplyDeleteI was going to make a comment this past week and even hit the little post comment button but it didn't go through. Then I read what I had written and decided not to post it. I now wish I had posted it.
ReplyDeleteHere's what I wanted to say after Robin's Post about Greg, Dave & Alexis missing the point.
Robin Daley, what have you done for this town?
You spout off about Greg and Dave and his wife but you haven't done nothing for this town.
Big woop, you bought the old cafe and let it sit there vacant except for an occasional quilting meeting.
How many people do you employ?
How much tax revenue have you raised for Buffalo?
When did you ever speak up for anything or against anything in Buffalo since you've been here?
I went back and looked at all my old issues of the Journal to see how many times you were at a town meeting. I read every one I could find that had the town board minutes in it and I didn't see your name on there one time. I saw Dave and Alexis names on many of the minutes. It looks like they are the ones who really care about what's going on in Buffalo. I realized that not one time did I see the mayors name on any of the town board minutes before she was elected. In every one where it was published, it listed who was in attendance at the meetings.
I went all the way back to the summer of 2005 and didn't see Robin Daley in attendance one time.
I didn't see Lewis Carpenter in attendance at any meeting before he was appointed.
I didn't see Susan Harper's name on there. I didn't see Georgina's name on there. I never once saw Chance Brown's name listed in attendance at a town board meeting. We elected these people and they never cared enough to go to any meeting of Buffalos town board. They don't give a sh#@.
Over and over again I see Dave or Alexis and Roger Summars attending meetings of the town. At most of those meetings they were the only ones listed.
It seems to me that if you really cared about Buffalo before the Inside magazine or this blog came about you would have been at those town meetings. No, before someone asks, I didn't go to any of the meetings either.
I have a person I know very well that has worked for the Thompsons. This person worked there since they moved their business here. This person speaks very highly of them and I know them too. Not well, but I like them. There are a lot of people in this town who appreciate what they have done for Buffalo. I have even more friends that work for them and we thank them for being here. Without them my friends wouldn't have great jobs.
You people are wanting them to move just because Dave stands up and tells us about what's going on? He's exposed a bunch of behind the scene crap people are pulling and you don't like it.
They've eliminated over 15 jobs and are cutting more. This hurts Buffalo big time.
Do you think there's ever going to be a company like theirs come to Buffalo again?
You people who were at the board meeting telling them to leave or move you might want to think about what you want. My friends need their jobs. My friends have kids. They have house and car payments to make. When you trash them you are trashing your own town and people like me who have lived here all my life. I grew up here. Me and my friends talked about how great it would be if a company would come here and do what they did. We even prayed about it. It happenned and now you want them out of town?
James Leonard: You are the economic development director. Get your butt over to their offices and talk them into staying here. Do what you can to keep them here. Lots and lots of people want them to stay here. Buffalo is dying and will die even faster if they leave.
If I was them I'd want to get out of buffalo too. I'd love to leave. Some day I will and I'll wave goodbye forever when I do to all you Robin Daley type who go about slandering people and telling lies.
So, Robin Daley, is that your apology? How bogus is that? I'd sue your ass in a minute if I were her and I wouldn't have sent you a warning letter.
If I had slandered someone I'd make a beeline to their front door and apologize personally.
Then I'd think twice about defaming them or anyone else ever again.
Maybe this is a wake-up call to Buffalo people to stop all the rumors and gossip.
It might do some well to read the article about the "gossip game" mentioned on this blog.
I'd get my facts straight next time.
We all know her husband is the one publishing the magazine, and he put his name out there for everyone to see. So why put the blame on her?
Do people go around blaming the spouses of Joe or Linda or Leah for something they do or say?
I am so glad somebody stepped up and said I've had enough.
I would be embarrassed if I got such a letter and I certainly wouldn't put it on a blog. That would show everyone that I slandered somebody.
Do you really think that people aren't going to comment on this blog because you defamed someone and got called on it?
I think I can speak for most of the people who comment on here when I say we're not slandering anybody and we're posting mostly general comments.
You wrote what she said you did, and anybody can scroll up or down and read it for themselves.
That was a smart thing to do. I hope she sues you for everything you have, even you vacant building.
I have attended the Town Board meetings for well over a year now, only missing a very few. Alexis has been at almost every meeting, missing very few herself. I have seen Dave there a few times, and I know that he was in attendance at a couple of meetings that I wasn't able to attend. I have also seen Robin Daley at several of the Town Board meetings, both at City Hall and the Library. I know in several of these meetings, Robin even spoke with the Town Board Members during the appearances from the audience segment of the meeting.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the "gossip game" goes, what goes around comes around! They have been real quick to spread gossip as well. ie: "Bailout" article. This piece of fiction definately qualifies as GOSSIP! A story spun just to try to instigate chaos.
And.....as far as blaming spouses, that was done right here on this very blog site! (WHERE THERE IS NO VISION, THE PEOPLE PERISH...comments: onsidebuffalo said..."Some of you may find it interesting that the husband of the city treasurer, after the meeting adjourned, had to be restrained from making physical lunges directed at someone else that had been in attendance of the meeting. The person restraining the husband of the city treasurer was none-the-less than, the City Mayor. She escorted her father-in-law out of the building and across the street to his vehicle." Posted Sunday, December 21, 03:45:00 PM.
Hi Jo Ellen...
ReplyDeleteI have read your posts, both here and back when you posted to Hey Martha. You have always supported strongly your friends and associates, I actually like you and think it is cool that you guard your own so closely. I have found that everyone protects their own, no matter if they are right or wrong.
however.... and you knew there would be one...I want to make sure we are clear on this...it is not "blaming" a spouse when someone posts FACTS. Come on, numerous people saw the incident at the Board meeting where an elected officials spouse had to be physically held back. There were probable 5-10 who actually saw it, including me, and there were numerous inside the library who were immediately advised of what happened. No slander/libel.... that was just facts....absolutely embarrasingly funny but still documentable, provable facts.
There are obviously two factions in this community and it is sad. However, by blaming ANYONE without facts, that is wrong and whomever does it should be spanked. Boycotting businesses who raise tax money only hurts the groups in our town who depend on tax revenue.... wouldn't that include the Hospital, Fire Dept, EMS, Town, Sheriff Dept, Library, etcetera... definitely a case of shooting your foot to spite your face.
The BAILOUT article was never on this blog site. Please try to keep the two sites separate.
Jo Ellen, I respect you and like you and hope that all of this eventually dies down so we can all get back to life in a small town.
Adios!
Looks like Mr and Mrs T have a few more fans than people think 'eh?
ReplyDeleteOur forefathers put up quite a fight for us to have what we have today.
Thanks to those putting up the fight today.
Small towns everywhere are falling by the wayside and we need business like what Mr & Mrs T have brought here and started here.
Theres old but new business in town just celebrating their grand opening in a new building and location this weekend, but they won't be run out of town because
1) They grew up here and are part of the old group of Buffalonians
2) They don't speak up for anything publicly.
Why not boycott every business in town?
Why not boycott Love's, the owner's not from here either.
Why not boycott Misty Arbor, he's not from here?
Why not boycott any other business in town?
Are we supposed to boycott the Museum of Weird when they open up? He's not from here.
No , they won't get boycotted because they don't stand up for anything they believe in and most of all they don't write about it publicly.
Your businesses are safe if you shut your mouth and fall in line like cattle to a slaughter.
Thank you Mr H for this websight.
You are welcome, and thanks for defending those eager to make a difference.
ReplyDeleteWow, belittling those who choose to post anonymously certainly doesn't meet your previously mentioned purpose of having people involved. You have allowed those of us to do so and then choose to chastise when we do. Enough. You have professed your love for this community, you have professed wanting people informed, you have professed wanting people to become involved..... However, your comments in subsequent posts read different. Eager to make a difference?????? That is clear. The question is truly why they want the change and how that change eventually looks and how it will take place. Is it change for the sake of change? Is it to meet personal agendas? I believe all will be exposed.....
ReplyDeletem.e.
m.e.,
ReplyDeleteDid you think my responsive slam down was a bit much? What about the comment in reference? Chipping in for moving a van!!! Give me a break.
What IS my agenda?
But even more so, what is YOUR agenda?
m.e. - belittling? what about he cruddy comment he posted? I personally felt that the writer commenting about a van was asking to be slapped.
ReplyDeleteStatus Quo isn't always the best way to look at the world. Maybe if we are afraid of change we should hire our own van for ourselves.
Come on, if we have comments, keep them clean and constructive, that was rude and destructive.
I have an agenda. We all do. I want to see a town that thinks before it acts, is held accountable for its actions, and who runs the town as a business not a popularity contest.
"I believe all will be exposed..." Good Grief, Charlie Brown aka m.e., You sound like a bad version of a twilight zone rerun.
Hmmm, I felt like the comment regarding the van was meant as satire. Was I the only one that felt that way? I doubt solutions will ever be listened to when they are presented in crude and cutting fashion. If one is going to present a publication alerting residents to what the publisher feels are errors, mistakes, etc, would it not be better to use journalistic professionalism, stating the facts as they stand, as opposed to mean spirited slamming of others? Hiding behind the ruse of, "I am just reporting the news" is a farce. As an example.... I could publish, "Mr X is just angry the hospital board didn't do business with him so he is retaliating by publishing a paper that is highly critical of anyone he chooses."
ReplyDeleteOr, I could publish, "Mr X has recently released his new publication, questioning why the hospital board chose to remodel an existing building as opposed to entering into an agreement with him that would have brought a brand new state of the art building to Buffalo." Essentially, I have said the same thing both times, but one is said with responsible journalism, the other being childish, petty, and self serving. If you want people to listen, then one might try being a tad bid more professional and a tad bit less critical. Just a thought.
Taking part of your quote completely out of context fits simply to the "t".
ReplyDelete"Hmmm, I felt like the comment regarding the van was mean_ as satire."
Completely off topic, but I just wanted to say thanks to the guys at the fire dept and sheriff's office, and EMS for the hard work and outstanding job they did at that huge fire this pst weekend. That fire was huge and those guys really worked their hinies off out there. Kudos to all you guys!!!
ReplyDeleteThanks to the Pizza Pub and to Arby's for feeding all the guys out there. Arby's donated something like a hundred roast beef sandwiches and the Pizza Pub took out a load of pizzas to feed our guys.
ReplyDeleteAnd while I'm on the subject, did anyone see the amount of pizzas brought into the gymnasium during the basketball tournament? I wondered how many pizzas they went through so I called the school, they told me they hadn't received the total count yet but they think they sold 35-40 large pizzas at the concession stand.
I had to contact the bison boosters for how many were donated. I was told that the pub donated 24 large pizzas to feed the coaches, our bison girls and boys b-ball teams and the referees for free!
That's a lot of food DONATED.
Just think, some of the kids who were eating that free pizza are the same kids whose parents were at the town board meeting telling them they wanted them out of here!
I saw a lot of pizza being eaten at the tournament by the same people who are supposedly "boycotting" the Pizza Pub. Like the mayor's husband?! No gossip. I saw it with my own eyes. The guy who stood up at the town board meeting to slam the owners of the pub, Brent? His own kids were eating the pizza. No gossip! I saw it! What a bunch of hypocrites.
Buffalonian,
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, one of the best posts ever on here!
Did you notice that? I said, "in my opinion".
I just read the definition of "opinion" so this is my "editorial" too.
I doubt if any of the town trustees read this blog but about the employee (manager) of Buffalo I agree with Buffalonian:
"If I made mistakes on my job and it ended up costing my employer large sums of money or endangered some of my fellow workers, I would either be reprimanded, demoted, or fired, not patted on the back and told that I was doing a good job!"
More from the MAN:
ReplyDeletePatience can persuade a prince and soft speech can crush strong opposition. Proverbs 25: 15
Mom
Thanks, MOM....
ReplyDeleteYou are definitely entertaining. Good points.
Your son is doing just fine. Putting out topics for everyone to think about.
It is better to have a room full of thinkers who are looking to the future than a room full of knee jerkers who react before they think.
Have a great day!